Question:
Can science, psychology, or theology prove the existance of God?
digilook
2006-06-04 09:35:41 UTC
atheistempire.com/reference/brain/main.html
26 answers:
ww_je
2006-06-04 12:02:35 UTC
I'll assume your question was seriously meant and was not merely rhetorical, attempting to make polemical points in support of some position or other. And so I'll not merely repeat my own opinion (or anyone else's.



Taking your possibilities in reverse order:



***Theology -- No. Theologians are concerned with understanding the often obscure issues which arise from Revealed Truth or from sacred Scriptures. This requires close reasoning, but it's all analytical reasoning, not synthetic, for outside information is not allowed, being fundamentally irrelevant. There has been no test, in modern times, to determine whether this or that theological analysis/understanding is wrong or right by the relevant Higher Standard. Which may acocunt for the particular bloodymindness of internicene disputes (eg, in N Ireland between Catholic and Protestant Christians, in Iraq between Sunni and Shia Muslims, in Communist countries between one variant doctrine and another (eg, Trotskyite and Stalinst Communists), or between True Believers (most everywhere) and those who don't also believe (eg, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge and anyone who could read, wore glasses, or did anything except rural farm work, or non-believers in the Spanish version of Catholicism under the Inquisition, ...), or in parts of Greece / S America / Burma (Myanmar) / Iran / Afghanistan in recent decades between authoritarian regimes and any suggestor of different policy, or in mainland China between officially permitted belief and those holding a non-permited one.





***Psychology -- Depends on the 'psychology' meant. For clinical psychology (and the assorted theoretic structures associated with it), the answer is no. They have, like theology, no method of testing an anaalytical (or clinical) conclusion against reality. Again, close reasoning is involved, but it has no connection to the underlying phenomena, and no good account of whether the phenomena observed are in fact relevant to any clinical problem, including the one under clinical consideration. The other psychology, experimental psychology, is a type of science and the answer for science (below) applies.



***Science -- Yes, certainly it could. Well sort of, science not being in the proof buisness. But...



Science requires an experimentally testable thing, or it can say nothing whatever about that thing. Thus, I can scientifically investigate the predicted water solubility of a new chemical by conducting an experiment. The result of a properly designed and conducted experiment is definitive as to whether some theory should be taken seriously thereafter. In short: Theory's prediction wrong, theory gets dumped. End of discussion, in principle. But no one can currently experimentally investigate any claim about alien life living on Kuiper Belt Objects well beyond the orbit of Pluto in our Solar System. Perhaps someday, but until then, all such claims are speculation, not science nor scientific.



Experimentation with regard to mental states is notoriously difficult to design and conduct. Assorted ad hoc attempted experimental tests of the horse Clever Hans (late 1800s Germany) all foundered, as it were. It took an especially careful series of experiments to demonstrate that Clever Hans was responding to his owner, who could do simple arithmetic, and was somehow pasing clues to the horse. It was vision (established by experimental tests for odor, noise, etc) that was involved, as Hans' math skills consistently deserted him when his owner was not visible, or when he couldn't hear the math problem, if visible. Millenia of close observation of house cats has not advanced human understanding of their mentation much beyond bafflement (string?!, mysterious rushing about?, lust for green pea soup??, ...); see Fritz Lieber's story, Spacetime for Springers for a theory of house cat mentality about as good as any of the current scientific ones, and more enjoyable. Experimental psychology deals with even more awkward and difficult experimental subjects and so much of it, certainly that related to 'higher' human abilities, is on quite uncertain ground. If for no other reason than that another run of an experiment is typically impossible -- humans remember things and make conclusions (helpful or interfering) about them, thus poisoning the experimental conditions.



But the problem with scientific investigation of the nature and existence of a god might perhaps be easier. If some observation were to be made (as none have, in any experimentally accessible way, in recorded history) for which all theories save Divine Existence, were to be experimentally shown to be inadequate, then science would have established, to the extent it ever can, the existence of a god. The theologians would have to carry on from there, I suppose, as most of what remains would be concerned with Divine Intentions and Purposes. Note that history is fundamentally unscientific, as no experimental test is possible in essentially all cases; the situation is complex if for no other reason than that humans are involved, and cannot be repeated. It is on this ground that it's clear the various crime investigator shows are not really about science, in spite of the spiffy technical gear, some perhaps authentic and not props, and the impressive sounding jargon, some of which is probably accurate.



But -- note this VERY carefully -- this is the best science will ever be able to do, and it DOES NOT prove, will not prove, and cannot be proof of any kind for, the existence of a god or indeed of anything else. Science simply cannot prove anything whatsoever, and doesn't try. Anyone who claims something to the contrary is uniformed, flogging some undisclosed agenda (or peraonsl opinion), or both. This is an obscure characteristic of the nature of science for most non-scientists, so it deserves futher comment.



=======

a 'thought experiment'



Consider the case of any scientific result. The existence of god, perhaps, or Newton's account of the action of gravity and of motion generally including the combined case of the motion of the planets. Assume that both these results are widely accepted by scientists, and presumably by the general public as well. Anyone who proposes a theory which better accounts for the observed phenomena (burning bushes and rods turning into serpents in one case, and the motion of the planet Mercury in the other) would -- after some period of argument and disputation -- replace the previous theory (ie, scientific result) with the new one. In the case of Newton's account of gravity and the motion of the planets, this has already happened. Several times. Einstein's Theories of Relativity are, together, a better account of motion and of gravity than Newton's, and futhermore much better accounted for the observed motion of Mercury than did Newton. There are several alternatives to Einstein's Theories, none of which has, so far, improved on them for experimentally accessible phenomena; in future, perhaps it may be ofund that one of them is better, in some currently unknown, aspect. Newton's theories o fmotion and of gravity are still widely used, as a superb approsimation, for slower speeds na lower gravity fields. But that's because it's convenient, not because anyone believes it's the truth about, or rather the best available theory accounting for, motion and gravity. In the case of our imagined scientific support for the existence of a god, the same possiblity will exist. An Einstein equivalent could propose a better theory (ie, which better accounted for the observed phenomena, whatever they might be) and science would then dump its previous result and adopt the new theory. To the very likely extreme distress of those for whom it was important.



=========

Best advice is "Beware! tricky footing here"



One should, thus, be very very wary of accepting any scientific proof of anything whatever. A better theory might be uncovered tomorrow. Now, that said, most scientific work has demonstrated there there a considerable interconnection between results in different fields. Eg, between biology and chemistry, chemistry and particle physics, stellar evolution and particle physics, and so on. It is therefore extremely unlikely that there will ever be any scientific revolution which calls into question the major theories of science. Possible, but so is being eaten by a polar bear while standing near the Egyptian pyramids outside Cairo. So exceedingly unlikely that one should effectively behave as though ...



So no scientific establishement of the existence of a god should be relied upon by those for whom certainty in such matters is important. Science provides nothing but liklihoods, highly probable liklihoods when it works well of course, but only those. Not certainty of any kind.



========

Scientific proof for non-existence of anything



There is, and can be, no such thing. Non-existent things don't exist (obviously) and so they can't be experimentally investigated. Without experimental test of theories about them, no such theory can be scientific and none has any scientific significance. Thus it will be clear that claims of scientific proof of the non-existence of a god, any god, are purest moonshine. I may be personally convinced by my scientific studies, you may be convinced by the fact the Smith, a scientist, is an atheist, and she may be certain there is no god because one was never mentioned in her school courses on science, but each of these opinions are irrelevant to science. However strenuously and persistnetly these or those attempt to hold science responsible for such opinions. They are, in fact, personal opinions. I also believe in the abominable Snowman, you believe in Ancient Astronauts, and she in Ramtha the Atlantean warrior channeled by J Z Young, None of these beliefs are scientific either, nor science is not responsible for them. Or to be blamed for them either. Except by the uninformed or those pushing some agenda (anti-science or pro-), most likely.



The only exception is not really one, but is compelling the less. Some theory has survived all experimental testing, has deep connections with much of the rest of science, and is well accepted. If the existence of something would be a gross violation of that theory, the something should probably be taken as impossible in practice. So, Einstein's Special Telativity made predictions about the energy required to accelerate a mass (any mass) to the local speed of light. This does not prove the non-existence of an atomic particle with mass which does move at the speed of light, bu you'd be ill advised to stake your scientific future on it or anything similar. In practice, as it were.



On the question of the non-existence of a god, science has no experimental information, and there is no body of theory which holds that the existence (or non-existence) of a god is central. So far, science has managed to find good theories for much of the phenomena we humans have encounterd, and to establish some considerable correspondence between them. All experimentally. Thsu far, a god has net been required as a part of the best available theories. Perhaps in future, or perhaps something has been missed, but not so far. And that fact says nothing about the existence or non-existence of a god. Science is god neutral for that reason, whatever some may allege for or against. Impressions, understandings, convictions, and opinions on this point are often simply uninformed or wrong. It is the cause of considerable angst among the unscientific, who are taking their views selectively or from those whose views are selectively informed.
albert
2006-06-04 17:08:03 UTC
Some manifestation of God would have to be real

in the physical sense for science to prove it's

existence. But if there were any real phenomena of

God, then it would not be spiritual. In other words,

it wouldn't be God as is commonly understood and

philosophically defined. Science does not prove the

supernatural.

Psychology is a convenient model of the workings

of the brain, like a blue print is a convenient way

to model a house, but it's not a house. Psychology

may describe the workings of the brain when the brain

conceives of God or senses God, but it can't prove God anymore than a blueprint can prove the existence of a house.

Theology is the study of the concepts of God and

the religions they are dependent on. Religious concepts

and religious truths are not the same as scientific

truths. They are dependent on doctrine. Doctrine is

the set of man made rules that an authority has defined

as true. So doctrine is subjective at its base. A proof

of God would have to be most objective. So no proof here

either.

That pretty much leaves you with a resounding "NO" for

an answer.
bertojame
2006-06-10 18:54:24 UTC
God Is. Faith is a belief in things not seen. When you see the complex structure of an atom, the molecule, the cell, the human body. You realize, that there must be some power or designer that put all of that together. How can you explain the complexity of life? How can anybody not think that something greater than a man or a civilization put life into this world. Creation is more than what mortal man can encompass....it is so overwhelming to contemplate. Yes, there must be a God. Can Science or Psychology or Theology prove the existence of God. Yes, The existence is proven by the complexity of the Universe and the life forms that now are a part of the whole.
AsLkD
2006-06-04 16:59:03 UTC
(IN response to many of the people who replied above)

Science also cannot explain what Exactly causes the Sinoatrial node to start pumping each heartbeat, There Is an ionizing potential, but What causes it to occur and eventually what causes it to stop at that precise moment when the person dies? What causes the beginning of contractions in a woman who's about to deliver? Hormones and all those things have been implicated, but why is it that two women undergoing the exactly same pregnancy(like totally) start contractions at different times. What determines the time of onset? What unknown force Knows the correct balance of electrolytes in your bloodstream, "science" definitely did not establish those standards to start with. What Causes gravity and all the physical forces? We known when and how they exist and their properties but Who/What causes it?

In contrast, a book by an illiterate man ages back, explains the 'chewed-flesh' shape of the embryo during early embryogenesis. No CTs, No Ultrasounds, not even literate men were around him. If science is reasoning, my reasoning tells me that book was not written by 'him'.



God exists. He just hints. IT'd be too easy a job to get into heaven n believe n all if He was evident. Good things come with a cost.



Science has theories about evolution and origion of the world, it doesnt Explain it.It has no definitive answers, hundreds of scientists have rejected Darwin and big bang etc. Science also has no predictions about the future, if it were able to explain everything, definite predictions would be made. In contrast, a book revealed upon to an illiterate man ages back, made predictions and they came true.



There are things which exist even if science can't explain their existence. And yet concepts in physics like entropy and heat death theory, all point towards the end of the world. Confirming religious predictions n stuff (not that they need confirmation anyway). Science is to be studied to understand the things that Can be understood.



Bottom-line: science aint the bottomline.
Duchess Ella
2006-06-04 17:47:15 UTC
Maybe yes, maybe no, but what's the point of doing that?

The cornerstone of a religion is BELIEF. FAITH. Not proof. It is because of the strong faith people has in their God that religion becomes so powerful. People don't need, and don't want proof of a God existing. Once, people thought the Sun is amazing and they pray to it. Now, we know that the Sun is just a giant fireball, and people don't pray to it anymore. But now they pray to the higher being that made that giant fireball. And if they prove God, what would people pray to?

Someone might have heard this story: An astronaut told a brain surgeon, "I don't believe in God. I've been to the space several times, and I've never seen God." The brain surgeon smiled and said, "I've operated on several hundred brains, and I've never seen a single thought."

The point of this story is that something doesn't need to be proved to make it real and believable. We can't prove thoughts exist. But we all know they do, because of the ways they manifest themselves. Similarly, people believe God exists because of the ways God manifest Himself.

In fact, many scientists are deeply religious. When scientists reach a place where no explanation exists, they exclaim about the wonders done by the Creator. Because scientists have seen the manifestations of God.
anonymous
2006-06-04 18:26:39 UTC
Believers always talk about, "Where did everything come from?", and at the same time claim to grasp the concept of infinity - that there is no end. But that's not what infinity says; the symbol for infinity is a figure 8 laying on its side. No, there is no end, but there is also no beginning. IMHO, the universe is here b/c it always has been here. It has changed, and will change again. The amount of fuel left in this universe has been long calculated - it's a terribly long time, like 900 trillion googles, or something like that. But that day will come. Science tells us that the universe will then collapse, and all that will remain are a few atoms about the size of our solar system. It's believed that eventually these atoms will come together, and everything starts again, but it will be different. So, to all the believers who pull out their old default theory of existence by asking, "Then where did everything come from?", why don't you tell us right-thinking people, "Where did everything NOT come from?" What can you rule out about the origin of this universe?
redsab
2006-06-11 06:50:01 UTC
In order to prove something you have to be able do an experiment more than once in a controlled environment in order to check the validity of the data. However, we are not able to do an experiment to prove God exists. For instance, how would you prove that God created the earth, it happened once and you can't preform the experiment again, therefore, you will never be able to prove that God exist.



Science is defined as "systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, etc."



The First Law of Thermodynamics says "Matter cannot be created or destroyed."



Everything is created out of matter, so if everything is created out of matter, then how did matter get here? We are here you know!



We only have to choices



1.) Somebody made the world (That would be God)



2.) The world made itself.



But we learned form The First Law of Thermodynamics that matter cannot be created; therefore, we must believe that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."



So we can't prove that God exist, but we can prove that the world did not make itself, so by default we have our answer....
aquarian
2006-06-04 18:18:06 UTC
To believe in the existence (of God)is a matter of faith as against Science.Science suspects everything to prove any hypothesis through repeated experimentation observation and rational logical reasoning,concluded through concrete facts.

Faith is an abstract thought,a belief which comes through an individuals experiences,it may differ from person to person and cant be proved in any scientific lab through questioning and repeating.When i say i ve seen God,and that God exist i wont be able to prove ,though i might know i m telling the truth.
KOROKS
2006-06-04 17:05:16 UTC
Science has already proved the existence of God by not able to tell us who started the big-bang. They say it was a single atom after getting tired of hanging around, just exploded and started the big-bang...what an infantile reasoning. who created that single atom? At this point Science has proved the existence of God, but the scientists are shy and self conceited to say it.
rt11guru
2006-06-04 16:50:21 UTC
No one has come up with any scientific experiment to prove or disprove the existance of any diety. They have over the course of the years come up with ways to explain things the used to be attributed to dieties.



For example, people don't believe in Thor or Zeus hurtling lighting bolts from the sky. Most of them believe that it is a discharge of static electricity.



Various theologists have come with mind experiments which they say proves the existance of God. Others find them to be circular in nature.
BabaFox
2006-06-04 16:41:22 UTC
Nope, Because the science Says that God doesn't exist
nellai_murug1955
2006-06-04 16:54:57 UTC
First of all what made to search GOD.Secondly why do you want search GOD.Third(ofcource}no more numerical steps,Will you acceept somebody telling he/she/it has seen GOD.It is understood that there cannot be a word for nonexistent/nonperceived entity,but there is a word to mean `GOD'.People have reversed the alphabets and demeaned,people have defined /denied in their own ways and confused the masses and so on--------------.But I Realiseed the existence of the ALLTHE MORE POWERFUL EXISTENSE.That is all.
WC
2006-06-04 16:41:47 UTC
No, science is a man made school of thought. It is flawed and limited in scope. Mankind's wisdom can NEVER be greater than the Creator's. Everything we know in the way of knowledge is a gift from God. If he wanted us to know something, He will in His own way let us know.
Toolooroo
2006-06-04 16:39:24 UTC
All of the ologys can't prove anything. They are the study of philosophy. Science, maybe one day.



Belief counts for a lot.

Believing that we aren't out here in the universe all by ourself.
The Master
2006-06-04 17:28:11 UTC
Not science, psychology or even theology can prove the natural or scietific existence of God.The more you try,the more you get mad.
histone2005
2006-06-04 17:16:22 UTC
Nope. God gave freedom of choice and once we would be able to prove God's existence, this freedom will be "taken" from us.
anonymous
2006-06-04 16:37:08 UTC
no, it just proves the un existence of God
isac
2006-06-04 18:55:42 UTC
Why do you need to PROVE the existance of it if u Truly BELIEVE in it??



it is not something that can be proven, that's why it requires one's BELIEVE.
Josie
2006-06-04 16:40:00 UTC
They can help to proove the existance of God, but they can not do it by them selvs. You have to have faith.
theMeganEffect
2006-06-04 16:37:12 UTC
Nope.
anonymous
2006-06-04 16:37:43 UTC
god does exist. god will confuse scientists to make them believe he doesnn't but he does.
anonymous
2006-06-06 01:19:46 UTC
no, it can only suggest that there is not a god, even though there really is a god.
~Sinfully~Exquisite~Stalking~
2006-06-04 16:38:17 UTC
Nope, it has proof as to how god doesnt exsist lol..



Irony isn't it?
Owlwings
2006-06-04 16:38:56 UTC
Can they prove that you don't believe in Him?
anonymous
2006-06-04 16:43:40 UTC
no.it can't be proved but only felt
ag_iitkgp
2006-06-04 16:44:16 UTC
THERE IS NO GOD.


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